The Hyborian Accord.

[Zelu]

Hail Clansmen,

I know it's not just me thinking this, the Hyborian Accord hasn't done didly squat since we've come in-game. Sure we don't attack each other in-game. Sure we get the occasional Rp Event going on. But what have we really done to help this server? Actually what have we done period?

The game's been live for coming close to two months now. Our guilds have cities built, our members grow stronger every passing day and with them our military might. The Border Kingdoms have started to get rolling with massive PvP, and all of the Battlekeeps have been claimed. As more and more people make it to Keshatta, the more and more people realize what a bad shape the server is in. Our server is falling fast, the non-Rpers are running amok turning this server into exactly what we didn't want to deal with in the first place.

It's been roughly 12 days since some people got together on the HA Forums and tried to brainstorm on what to do to revive the Hyborian Accord. In 12 days, nothing has really changed. We're still stuck in a downward spiral of non-cohesiveness and idleness. Again, I'm sure it's not just me thinking this.

So yesterday in the thread that we were brainstorming in I posted my bit and waited. Nobody even logged in yesterday. So I'm coming directly to you guys and the other HA guilds because the HA Forums isn't cutting it. Plus, somebody needed to actually do something rather then sit around talking about doing something.

[IcedCrow]

What would you have us do?

[Utah]

I think all of us who want the "spirit of roll playing" to rule the server share your frustrations... I cannot speak for my Elders, but it would seem that we have two problems.

1. FunCom's lack of enforcement of a RP-server's basic principles, like non-RP guild names.. We have all seen them and I could go from there to the various examples of character names.

2. The lack of the Hyborian Accord becoming a power capable of enforcing our will on those who openly display non-RP conduct, such as insulting character or guild names. In our fantasy world of Conan, the throne belongs to the strong and only through force of arms can we expect to regain the RP-Server.

What should we do? ... I would like to see the Accord leadership work toward a plan that would organize enforcement group-level teams that would go on "seek and destroy" missions to kill those that offend us.. We should have a team of level 20's in Tortage that catch the name and guild tag violators early and tell them to reroll if they wish to play on our RP-Server.. "What would Conan do" should be our guiding principle in dealing with these players who mock the spirit of RP. You put them in the dirt and tell them their name and /or conduct offends King Conan and they should move to another server or bend to Conan's will.

We should also have the Accord leaders jointly petition FunCom at both the GM level and up through the chain of their business side about our complaints of non-RP names on an RP Server... Any business does not like unhappy customizes and we roll-players have no other server to go too.

In the end, the power to do something is in our collective hands... We need to grow in size and strength and the beat the drums of war :barb: Hey, it would be fun to see several Full Raid group of level 80 Hyborian Accord brothers on the march and here to cries of our enemies and the wailing of their women folk as they flee before us :barb:

[Verdigris]

Though I am not SWC, I have an observation. Quite simply, the Hyborian Accord was undermined and doomed the moment that Hand of Set aligned with Eximos.

THoS is the largest, most militarily active guild of those listed in the HA. Rather than work on a roleplaying alliance or putting their efforts there, they allied themselves with the largest anti-RP guild on the server. You want the HA to begin to do more? Get THoS involved. I personally lost all hope for the HA when I saw this alliance announced. I knew what sort of people were in Eximos after they merged with Mischief, as I have had the misfortune of sharing servers with Mischief in the past.

No, this does not absolve the other guilds in HA of their parts in the ineffectualness of the Accord. However it will be a major contributor to continuing the impotence of the RP alliance. Get THoS in gear. I believe you'll see a good deal of momentum behind this effort if you can do that.

[Zelu]

I would like to see the Accord leadership work toward

Although I'm just going to pick at this one spot of your post, I would like you to know that was a great post and I'll post those ideas on the HA Forums.

As for the moment the Accord has no leadership. Or at least nothing I would call that. I'm all for rebuilding the HA but frankly can't do it by myself, whatever any of you can do to help support would go a long way to rebuilding the Hyborian Accord.

[Korgoth]

Hail Zelu. I must agree with you when it comes to the HA. After the said alignment of the two guilds I did lose hope for it and just quit checking the site. I am glad you have come to us to spread the word and to continue our organization. As you have said we have done didly squat to combat this menace that is the server control given to none RP guilds. I suggest we do more brainstorming ourselves for instance. Befriending the officers andmembers of each HA guild to ensure we can get communication goin. Communication is always key. Second its also a chain link system, where if one of the links are being mistreated or abused by a confirmed non-rp player, he could just send a message to HA guilds and his own calling for a backlash againts said enterlopers. And lastly we must keep relations going between the HA. Form groups together, set rp events, and have in-game meetings. One thing ive been doing since launch, and damn proud to say, is that I have killed any player that has a non-rp name , sometimes even camp the person if they themselves become hostile from the first attack. I have even had roaming deathsquads to kill such players, leaving the ones who abide by the server ruleset in the naming section.

[IronBound]

As of now it seems that all of the community leaders that are invloved with the HA are in some kind of agreement that it is not working as planned. The server drew too many of the large non RP guilds to really see the overall ideas set come to fruition, so we do need to look at the paths ahead and decide what is next. ;)

THoS is no longer associated with the HA, but those that remain are all good solid communites that do want to see something grow out of the relationships we have formed.

I think it would be best served if the communities could work to a common goal of group events and a true alliance. Something that was never the intent of the HA, but as things have not panned out with the server as we thought, we need to just adapt and push forward. :thumb:

[Galcus]

I will help in any way I can. I believe the root problem is numbers. We need to have ambassadors out, and hitting up every guild we can come up with that may be suitable for our efforts. Even the smaller guilds can help on some level. But, this would need to come after the current HA members solidify some kind of existence. It does not have to be control of the server itself, but to atleast be solid in our efforts and existence.

[Zelu]

Well now that I've been on everyone's guild forums and got the general feel for what everyone's thinking and who wants to help. I think the thing to do now is to have another HA meeting. Probably another vent one (I don't know how the others went, I was hibernating for the game to come out). Problem is I don't know everyone's schedule, or who would come.

So If your interested in showing up post here and when it would be a good time for you. We'll get this scheduled within the next week hopefully.

[Galcus]

Tue or Wed nights work best for me, if any other day it would need to be before 830 PM Central Standard.

[Brazzik]

Alright, I know its long in coming but prepare yourself for a critical mass of text as I spill forth my thoughts on the Hyborean Accord and any endeavors it may choose to take.

I do not have the time to attend any meetings, but take from the following what you will, and to all the guild members reading this please think about what I have to say.

The Hyborian Accord is in need of such a drastic overhaul in direction, processes, and goals that it should truly recieve a new name to go along with it's rebirth. To those who are unaware it's reception on the official forums was riddled with mixed feelings about the HA itself. Because it required an application process and current members decided who could join and who couldn't after a trial period it was commonly viewed as an elitist organization, and judging by some of the guild leaders I know that were involved this judgement was correct.

Other worries and concerns involved the possiblity of guilds bringing their personal quarrels with other guilds to the HA to have them decimated by the collective wrath of the entire organization. This too is a valid concern and I never saw mention of this fear being addressed.

The HA itself did not make sense in it's purpose either. The HA itself did not have it's own set-in-stone goal or method of achieving a better atmosphere and community for the server and this unknown purpose breeds apprehension in people's reception of the organization. Aside from this, the lack of a common goal and process to achieve this common goal kept each guild from working together for any end whatsoever. Simply having each guild state what their guild will do to foster a better environment is not enough. Programs need to be implemented to organize the guilds together for some common purpose and this is what the HA lacked in spades.

So here are my vague tips on things that should be done. Is it arrogant of me to propose I know better than all the founding members of the HA? You bet!

Decide on a common goal and method for achieving this goal. What fosters a better environment? Simply having the guilds take a passive approach to it all and organizing RP events for the guilds to come together for? Or would a more aggressive approach, along the lines of "griefing the griefers" be what the organization desires? Aside from one invitation from the Snowhawk Clan for an RP event (that was really more of a PvP event, but still better that Cosmic Bowling) no word was ever mentioned of either of these goals being the purpose of the HA.

If the passive approach is chosen, then simple invitations to the other guilds involved in the HA is all that is necessary to promote RP on the server. I believe many other guilds have organized their own RP events, but none have come forward to share them with the HA or the community at large. I suppose people would need a reason to care about the HA as a whole to motivate them to make these events server wide rather than merely guild wide, hence my numerous statements about the HA needing a common goal that is less vague than "fostering a better community".

And what of the aggressive approach? How could this be attempted? Through organization efficiency shines and the whole process of driving undesireables from the server becomes simple and effective. Every guild that RPs at all has at least a few members who love to drop whatever they are doing to slaughter someone with a horrible name, so the motivation to strike against these people is already there, yet the organization of the strikes is lacking so that the griefers are not hindered in their attempts to undermine the community.

Griefers rather relish in the attention of having a few high levels track them down and kill them in retaliation for past sins, it lets them know they made someone angry. Sending angry tells and guild-wide KOS threats only fuels them more. To better harass them it requires cold calculation, and silence. They need to be completely shut down for an evening, repeatedly, to get the message that they will not have fun on this server. The simplest way to achieve this level of effectiveness is to get to know all of the guilds involved in this effort and know numerous members by name. Having a few people who keep their own personal KOS lists handy at all times on call to communicate to their guild that someone is in such and such zone and then passing it on to other guilds who relay it through to their members and so forth allows for a sizable force of ragtag vigilantes to smell the scent of blood and pursue the hunted.

Now the catch is that merely defending when these people attack is not enough to deter them, it will only encourage them. And lying down and taking it has no effect either. The only way to be a thorn in their side is to harass them to the point that the TOS comes into question. This could easily be circumvented by numerous members from numerous guilds taking shifts to track them through instances, but who would be willing to sink so low? I would never suggest doing something such as this to even the slightest respectable guild, but who would be bothered if this happened to Floralis Au Gaudium?

And then who's to say who is as bad as the FaGs? A preponderance of evidence would need to be made, and a vote cast by all members of the HA before any action is taken, yada yada yada. I would hope that that doesn't need to be said.

So with that massive wall of text I ask, what is the purpose of the Hyborian Accord? How does the HA intend to make the server a better place? Will people really feel motivated to work together without any specific goal that applies to every member guild? If people aren't directed as a whole will they even know what to do to work together?

And lastly, heavy RP guilds should not be the only potential members. An organization needs to be made simply for the sake of the betterment of the server and those guilds who are primarily OOC but still respect the server's "rules" should be in line for membership and only grossly mismatched guilds (IE FaG) should be turned away, unless they show themselves to be a terrible fit later.

OTG would be a guild worth looking into, for example. Not a heavy RP guild, but very respectable in their encounters. Primal Fury would be near the top of my list as well, and would be a great group to round out our late-night crew (they're an oceanic guild for those unaware). Renegade and The Guardians would be other heavy RP groups to seek support from. Renegade members were some of the most vocal about the HA being elitist, so bear that in mind.

Now that my long "PS" is over, I will really, truly end my post now. The end. For good. No, seriously, I'm done.... Bye.

[Zelu]

Okay not sure if this has been posted somewhere else I can't see, but here it goes.

The inter-guild raid is scheduled for Sunday(27th) 7pm Est. We'll be meeting in Aelfrith's camp before heading to Vistrix lair. 80s will take priority over everyone else. We'll be hosting this from Black Lotus vent which is...

ip: 208.100.9.251
port: 8918

After or before the raid we may hold a HA meeting simply for the fact of having so many HA guilds in one vent at the same time.

I look forward to raiding with the noble Silver Wolves!

[Mactire Mac]

Just a thought and this is on the fly but, what if we run the HA like the Iriquois Confederacy(please excuse my spelling). That there is a loose allience but we all do have our own alliences and dealings. But when the need arises our leaders get together and vote on issues, then issue the rest of us the marching orders?

[Pateman]

Ok, my two cents.. hehe...

There are some common myths that many subscribe to. Several of them being...

1) Funcom should be the active policing force on the RP servers. For those who hold this view, you have not been involved with or seen the RP discussion threads that went on between players and Funcom before launch. There are official RP rules set forth by Funcom. These rules are not for Funcom to police. They set them forth for us to police as the RP community. We have the right to call violatons as the rules permit. As for there not being anything done. I hold the honor of being one of the most active /petition writers on the server. Most GM's and Followers know who I am by name. 95% of my petitions have not only had something done about them but have had them done within an hour or two of sending them. Also a thing to keep in mind... Not all GM's or Followers are RPers. And if they aren't, they simply don't understand. The RP rules are to be enforced as stated, not for the purpose of harrassment of other players but as a standard to be enforced on the RP servers, by for and of the RP players who are here. I have bombed names and seen them changed. I have bombed OOC channel chat violations and seen the offenders corrected and shortly QQ about it. Things do get done. In many instances a Follower will respond to a petition and because of lack of training or authority or whatever reason they will have to forward a petition they aren't qualified for to an available GM for further assistance. Just because something doesn't get done immediately does not mean that nothing will get done. In some instances if the person overseeing the situation does understand the situation because they are not RPers they may make a bad call and as such then a history begins against the violator. If more petitions of the same kind come in it does make a difference as to what and how fast something gets done. In most cases, the issue gets corrected.

2) There are various levels of roleplay. But it's time to take another look at the term. It is being missused by the video game industry to try and gain an edge that they neither deserve nor can own up to. Let me show you what I'm talking about...
How many of you have played a True RPG? Pen and paper, books on the table, hours arou d the gaming room. Now I have to admit that I am heavily biased here because I've done Live Action RPG design on two different systems as well as done my own custom rules for various games at home. I've also done some developmental work that is still in process for a couple different major RPG lines out there, so I think I'm quite qualified to define what is and is not a roleplaying game. A RPG is a game environment where you the player assume full control of the of character you have developed to portray within that setting. Part of the RPG element is the freedom to play your character as you see fit within the setting. In an RPG you have the freedom to go in any direction that you want. You can abandon the GM's stroyline and go make your own. This is part and parcel of the freedom of the True RPG. It has been discussed many many times over, if the GM narrows your choices, or directs your freedom or restricts what you and can cannot do, then they are taking away from the RP experience and creating one of several other experiences. Such as, the sin of Railroading in which the characters have to travel in a straight line from one encounter to the next and has no real choice in what is going on or how it's going on. I've noticed several of these games in the past couple years. And some of them claim to be RPGs which is false. Then you have the video game variation of the pick your quest adventure books in which case you make a character and then have a list of quests and objectives and in some cases can choose to take them in any order and in others no choice at all. These are not RPGs either. When advanced into the realm of video games, there are alot of misc details that get added for eye candy to make you think you have choices but in the end you are really running in the direction that the programmers want you to run in and not really the direction you have taken. Has anyone played Bladur's Gate and said, "Gee, if I had a choice, I would this instead of that."? I'm sure you all have. That is the glowing line between an RPG and an actiion/adventure. And here is also where the term gets screwed even more. Among the video game industry, the term "roleplay, RP, RPG" has become synonymous with any game in which you level your character. This is another cardinal sin. If you are playing to the mechanics of a game, you are either "Meta-gaming" or you are "Roll Playing" not "Roleplaying" and there is a huge world of difference between these.

Now that I have given those details out, let me set the standard I use.

RPG's = D&D, Shadowrun, The White Wolf Storyteller System, Earthdawn, Cyberpunk, Conan, Star Wars and many other table top full form roleplaying games where the very essence of RP was created and defined.

Not RPG's= And many will claim they are when they aren't. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and many other just like them. What are they? Action/Adventure games not RPGs. Why? In simple, because all the missions and quests and objectives set before you are canned. They are designed by computer programmers who either don't play RPG's, or played them years ago when they were kids, or still play them rarely and still think only mechanically and miss the bulk of the game design for the maxed levels and uber toys.

One of the reasons for the failure of things like the Hyborean Accord is this. Most of the people involved have a) Alot of talk and nothing to back it up with, b) more ego than brains, c) A missperception of the environment (power gamers and rollplayers not roleplayers), d) just plain lazy, e) a constant case of "it looks on paper" but no willingness to actually do anything to advance the mission f) and I can go on listing reasons.

The major reason why groups like the Hyborean Accord work, and I ran a guild like this in SWG, when the characters become more important than the mechanics. When the story is more important than power levelling or getting the next phat lootz, then you take a step in the right direction. Personally I'm sick of people saying that everyone can roleplay however they want. That's like saying that people can drive however they want, going on school shooting spree however they want, or otherwise be stupid however they want (refering to the general stupidity involved in things like Jack Ass). Sure people can do it, but just because a person can do a thing does not mean they should. And if they do then they should be subject to the response their actions bring. When I lead my SWG guild, we were the most hardcore RP guild on a non RP server. I was bent on taking over the server from within and making it a RP server. In quick order we destroyed every guild that had a mixed Imp/Reb association. There was a galactic civil war on and we had no mercy for people who wanted to "hang with their friends and be whatever they wanted". They were a setting violation of the highest order. Higher even than the Jedi which was another Sony sin of galactic proportions. We had many Jedi in our guild but the Jeid rules were, no blatant displays of power unless obsolutely needed. No obvious Jedi associations either even though we had our own order. We were dedicated to follow the path of Luke Skywalker and awaited his decisions on the furture of the Jedi Order after the fall of the Empire. We had gained such a reputation that the GM's knew who and what we were and would watch our backs. And the griefers and gankers knew us too, as the most brutal grief machine in the galaxy. We burned people off the server for not playing the game right. We held people accountable for their words and deeds. What happens on the field is live on the field. We developed tactics that went beyond the mechanics and were able to do things that others were not able because they were simply not willing to put in the time or the effort to do them. We had many Rebels trying to ride our coat tails and then claim that they were personally responsible for our success. But in the end, when we went away, nobody filled our shoes and nobody since has accomplished what we did.

The fact of the matter is this. If you want it, you have to be willing to fight for it. If you want it bad enough, then you have to be willing to pay any price to get it. The RP status of Cimmeria is a shambles because the players don't want it bad enough. And that's where the blame should be placed. It's not Funcom's fault that a mass of asshats and non rpers are on our server. It's ours. We tolerate them, we put up with them, we make excuses and apologies to them and for them and we do nothing to stop them.

What we need is a player revolution on the server. A civil war if you will. To put the various guilds in their places. RP and non RP. To define the line of tolerance and intolerance and then be willing to take the war to the enemy and make them go away. I've heard all the escuses, "Oh, that's what they want", "Oh, you'll be just like them", "Oh, tha'ts ganking and griefing"... I've heard them all and am not impressed. When some asshat spawn camps me half a dozen times, he's not playing the game, he's not roleplaying, he's being an ass as a player and is trying to ruin my enjoyment of the game and it is that simple. If his intelligence is not qualified to see that then they have no business being online at all.

I sound like an ass myself. I recognize that. The difference is... I'm not an ass as a person, I'm a real nice and friendly guy, ask anyone who's ran with me or talked to me in vent. But I am hardassed about my entertainment. I work hard for my money and I want to play just as hard. Unlike some people who just don't get it... This is not "just a game" for me. It's an art, a hobby, my major form of entertainment. And when some punk tries to ruin my game for laughs of just because, there is no excuse or reason for it. "I"m a murderer" does not fly to justify killing everything in sight. It's payback time. Since they are not roleplaying and they are not playing by the rules, we should have no mercy in dealing with them. They can be burned from the server and there is nothing they can do but stand and fight and die or leave. This is not a matter of lowering ourselvbes down to their level. It's about defending our server from a menace that simply knows no limits to the dishonor and abuse they can meet out on a whim. It's a war stance. And the winner is going to be the players who are willing to go to any length and do whatever it takes to control the server. Good, bad, win, lose... It's all a choice.

How bad do you want it? And what line of self respect is worth the tolerance of the asshat disease of groups like Uprisings, Anvil of Crom and NoM. It's not about being nice and civil. We can do that when we win the server. Right now we have a serious game violation going on and too many just turning a blind eye to it.

When you want the game to be a living breathing setting where anything is possible and the stories are rich and dramatic. When you want the game to make sense and roleplay to rule the day. When you want it so bad you can taste it. Empires of glory. Wars of purpose. Tales of adventure and conquest. The honor and nobility of worthy companions. The company of respectible peers and the companionship of fine woman to go with our drinks and for a time... For a frozen moment in time, to be able to forget who "You" are and become your character in full. Then you will know where I am. If can be done and it is possible because it has been done before. I have already started taking the steps toward doing my part to make Cimmeria the best server it can possibly be as well as a RP mandated server. I don't mind people who can play themselves as their character and blend in. I do mind these asshats that destroy RP just by breathing. I get tired of hearing "I hate RP' on an RP server. I am tired of hearing a non rper say they are here only because of the population...

This is a good game and a great server. If we got rid of the non rpers we would have at least 3-400 serious rpers and living breathing environment to be proud of. We the roleplayers we can make this a great server but only through the spilled blood of the enemies of our server.

My apoligies for being long winded but I had to get it all out, this has been building for some time and needed to be said...

Honor and glory or slavery and death.